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A suggested edit to this page?
I believe that a relevant edit to the section "Free licenses" that should be taken into account would be:
If an article has a CC-BY license, this doesn't necessarily mean that all figures in this article have the same free license. As mentioned here, CC-BY licenses allow the use of copyrighted material, provided that this is explicitly identified as being excluded from the free license. Always scrutinize figure captions for statements like "Reprinted with permission from", "©" or "Image:Source", which signal that these figures are not covered by the free license.
What do you think? Should this be added to the page?
User579987 (talk) 06:49, 15 January 2024 (UTC)
- @User579987, it sounds like you are concerned about someone mistakenly uploading an image that is non-free, because they saw it in a larger publication (e.g., a book or article) that is free, so they assumed that everything inside the publication was free. Do I understand your concern correctly? WhatamIdoing (talk) 05:41, 17 January 2024 (UTC)
- @WhatamIdoing Exactly; that's what I meant. I believe it's an important exception that should be looked out for. I admit that some of the words I used are a bit complicated and difficult to understand. Perhaps we can rephrase it using simpler language. User579987 (talk) 14:01, 17 January 2024 (UTC)
- @WhatamIdoing : Maybe a version like this :
- Important note: If an article has a compatible free license, this doesn't necessarily mean that all images in this article have the same free license. Despite the general freedom granted by the free license, there might be specific components that are copyrighted and these copyrighted components should be clearly identified as being excluded from the free license. Even in free articles, always check image captions for statements like "Reprinted with permission from", "©" or "Image:Source", which signal that these images are not covered by the overall free license.[1]
- What do you think? User579987 (talk) 14:06, 18 January 2024 (UTC)
- I think this is pretty good, and I wonder if we can make it even shorter. Perhaps as short as "Watch out for sources using multiple licenses. Sometimes an article will have a compatible free license for the text but use a non-free license for specific components (e.g., a photo or diagram)." WhatamIdoing (talk) 02:13, 19 January 2024 (UTC)
- @WhatamIdoing That's great as well, but I think clarification is slightly better as the paragraph I sent isn't very long and to avoid templates like Clarify since this article is normally read by beginners and in my opinion needs to be as clear as possible. I also think it's worth clarifying by mentioning examples like "Reprinted with permission from", because some articles clearly mention this exception by saying, "The images or other third party material in this article are included in the article’s Creative Commons licence, unless indicated otherwise in a credit line to the material", while others use more vague statements like "Image: Oxford University Press" for example to state that images are copyrighted. Perhaps some clarification won't do much harm. User579987 (talk) 04:28, 19 January 2024 (UTC)
- I'm not sure that a credit line alone is evidence of the material being non-free. A CC-BY license is free and requires a credit line. WhatamIdoing (talk) 15:23, 19 January 2024 (UTC)
- @WhatamIdoing I had the same doubt regarding statements like "Image:Oxford University Press". Does this mean this figure is excluded from the free license or not? However, after asking a question here about a figure in which I found this statement, I was told that this was a method of informing that this figure is excluded from the free license. Not quite sure though. Do you prefer omitting this example "Image:Oxford University Press", and keeping the other two: "Reprinted with permission from" and "©"? The latter two are stated in the reference I provided, which says, "For instance, some licensors individually mark pieces of content to which the license does not apply with explanatory text such as “(c) copyright holder--used with permission” or “The CC license does not apply to this picture." So these two are without doubt, but "Image:Source" may be a bit doubtful indeed. Should we remove it and keep the other two?
- I'm not sure that a credit line alone is evidence of the material being non-free. A CC-BY license is free and requires a credit line. WhatamIdoing (talk) 15:23, 19 January 2024 (UTC)
- @WhatamIdoing That's great as well, but I think clarification is slightly better as the paragraph I sent isn't very long and to avoid templates like Clarify since this article is normally read by beginners and in my opinion needs to be as clear as possible. I also think it's worth clarifying by mentioning examples like "Reprinted with permission from", because some articles clearly mention this exception by saying, "The images or other third party material in this article are included in the article’s Creative Commons licence, unless indicated otherwise in a credit line to the material", while others use more vague statements like "Image: Oxford University Press" for example to state that images are copyrighted. Perhaps some clarification won't do much harm. User579987 (talk) 04:28, 19 January 2024 (UTC)
- I think this is pretty good, and I wonder if we can make it even shorter. Perhaps as short as "Watch out for sources using multiple licenses. Sometimes an article will have a compatible free license for the text but use a non-free license for specific components (e.g., a photo or diagram)." WhatamIdoing (talk) 02:13, 19 January 2024 (UTC)
- What do you think? User579987 (talk) 14:06, 18 January 2024 (UTC)
User579987 (talk) 17:33, 19 January 2024 (UTC)
- I would reasonably argue that if work by group A that is published CC, but includes an image or other element that they credit, without mention of copyright, to group B, it is best to assume that group B's work is copyrighted, unless specifically stated by the credit that it is used under some type of free license. So the "Image:Oxford University Press" is where we should assume that it is copyrighted unless proven otherwise, and included in the CC work via fair use. Masem (t) 03:50, 20 January 2024 (UTC)
- @Masem @WhatamIdoing After some consideration, I think we can add the first two examples: "Reprinted with permission from" and "©-Copyright holder" because these two have a reference to support them. On the other hand, "Image: Source" till now is lacking a reference. I kinda believe it means exclusion from overall free licensing, but without references, it can be easily challenged (WP:CITE). Maybe we can start an RFC or another similar method to verify if "Image: Source" really means exclusion from overall free licensing and should be added to a Wikipedia policy page to make sure it reflects consensus.
What do you think?
User579987 (talk) 03:59, 20 January 2024 (UTC)
- I think it'll be better than what we have, so you should do that.
- (The problem with credit lines is that "Image: Oxford University Press" is probably copyrighted but "Image: Wikimedia Commons" is not, and the difference may not be immediately obvious.) WhatamIdoing (talk) 22:22, 20 January 2024 (UTC)
References
- ^ "Marking third party content". wiki.creativecommons.org. Archived from the original on 11 January 2024. Retrieved 18 January 2024.
Youtube
Are we really uploading screenshots from Youtube now? That almost feels like cheating. It was funner when we had to take the pictures ourselves or scour flickr for scraps. That was more like the wiki-way. Anyways, thoughts on this image? ~WikiOriginal-9~ (talk) 14:18, 9 February 2024 (UTC)
- What issue is there with the image? -- Whpq (talk) 14:23, 9 February 2024 (UTC)
- I was just reading this and wanted to confirm that the image was free to use. Looks like it is? Thanks for the quick reply. ~WikiOriginal-9~ (talk) 17:11, 9 February 2024 (UTC)
- @WikiOriginal-9, it looks like it's licensed correctly. c:COM:VPCOPY is usually a more reliable place to ask about the copyright of images. WhatamIdoing (talk) 03:54, 10 February 2024 (UTC)
- I was just reading this and wanted to confirm that the image was free to use. Looks like it is? Thanks for the quick reply. ~WikiOriginal-9~ (talk) 17:11, 9 February 2024 (UTC)
Collages in infoboxes
I have observed a recent spate of editors adding collages to infoboxes for military conflict articles. These might consist of four, six and sometimes more images. In my view, these are too noisy. If they do not significantly increase the footprint of the infobox, they are too small to be viewable. Furthermore, detailed captions add to and bloat the infobox. Infobox size is a particular issue for mobile devices. It is my view that collages as a lead image are generally inappropriate and contrary to P&G on several points.
- Per WP:COLLAGE, collages
are single images that illustrate multiple closely related concepts, where overlapping or similar careful placement of component images is necessary to illustrate a point in an encyclopedic way
[emphasis added]. Such collages do not satisfy image use policy. The rationale for use appears to be largely decorative. - Per MOS:PERTINENCE:
Images must be significant and relevant in the topic's context, not primarily decorative. They are often an important illustrative aid to understanding.
This is consistent with WP:IMGCONTENT (policy):The purpose of an image is to increase readers' understanding of the article's subject matter, usually by directly depicting people, things, activities, and concepts described in the article. The relevant aspect of the image should be clear and central
[emphasis added]. - WP:INFOBOXPURPOSE would tell us (in essence) not to try to write the article in the infobox and that,
[t]he less information it contains, the more effectively it serves that purpose ...
Collages would appear to be inconsistent with this. - Cognative theory and good presentation practice would tell us that too much visual information in one place is counterproductive (ie a sensory overload) and hence, my view that such images are too noisy.
- Editors adding such collages would apply a justification of other stuff. However, this is only a reasonable justification if it represents best practice represented by our best quality articles. Very few (if any) of our best quality articles use collages for a lead image.
My reading of P&G and best practice is that the use of collages as lead images/in infoboxes generally and for military conflicts more specifically, should be exceptional.
Comments please. Cinderella157 (talk) 12:26, 18 March 2024 (UTC)
- On one hand, I understand that you can't cover the breadth and scope of many wars with a single image, let alone massive conflicts like World War II. On the other, I agree that generally you see very little in most montages and that many don't feel effectively chosen for their significance versus the "niceness" of the image itself or the decoration they provide (to use the WWII example, the atomic bombing of Japan makes innate sense to me as a major element of the end of the war, or a shot of Stalingrad for its considered role as the "turning point" of the war. Images of tank or aircraft make some sense in terms of the mechanization of war but the choices seem overall random, and the entire collage doesn't do a great job illustrating the global nature of the conflict, its civilian toll, etc. Some of this feels like it wouldn't be as much of an issue if people didn't want an infobox over all else (I've got a collage image as the lead for Art Deco architecture of New York City to demonstrate the different styles the form took in the city across the boroughs it's prominent in, but it's allowed to be more than 30% larger by virtue of not being in an infobox.) Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs talk 13:00, 18 March 2024 (UTC)
- In most cases I've seen in these infobox collage discussions where the topic couldn't be covered with a single image, it couldn't really be covered by 3-6 images either. The exact same problem is faced. There are probably some topics out there which are very well summarised with 3-6 images, but perhaps by that very nature they don't lend themselves to extended disputes about image inclusions. CMD (talk) 02:52, 19 April 2024 (UTC)
- Agreed. Cinderella157, it might be worth making this a broader proposal rather than specific to military conflicts. Nikkimaria (talk) 02:58, 19 April 2024 (UTC)
- I agree. They are awful and should be banned. Otherwise the number of them will inexorably grow, as they are (like over-loaded infoboxes) another thing that editors who can't or won't add text love to do. Johnbod (talk) 13:47, 18 March 2024 (UTC)
- There are good clean examples of info ox collages like in most city articles. But this is generally based on using images that have strong contrast and clear features like city skylines and key buildings or infrastructure, so that as a thumbnail it's still easy to read. Pictures from WWII aren't going to have the same contrast or clarity at small sizes so, a collage doesn't make sense here. Masem (t) 14:08, 18 March 2024 (UTC)
- Collages have long been controversial. There are some editors who wish that our policies and guidelines did more to restrict their use, but to say that the present language of PAG restricts them is a major stretch/overstatement. Please don't conflate an argument with what you'd like them to say with interpretation of what they presently say. Sdkb talk 14:25, 18 March 2024 (UTC)
- There's some policy based arguments to be made against certain collages, but I don't think current policy prohibits them. Certainly poor contrast collages and those that poorly illustrate the subject are bad, and probably a poor choice according to policy. Infoboxes are poor at handling complexity (this isn't just related to images), but that is because they are meant to show simplified information. Dispersing images through out article is a better way to illustrate the subject, but that doesn't mean all collages should go. It certainly seems as if some collages are being added because they are collages, and that doesn't look like careful consideration of the subject or the articles needs. -- LCU ActivelyDisinterested «@» °∆t° 19:47, 18 March 2024 (UTC)
- Collages and galleries are an accessibility nightmare on many levels... Be it fragmented images, mini images or scrolling nightmare before reaching pros text (most readers only scroll a few times then go somewhere else)... should really only be used for comparisons in my view. Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Accessibility#Images Moxy🍁 02:40, 19 March 2024 (UTC)
- I agree with Cinderella and infobox collages should be strongly discouraged, and certainly not expanded. One good image is better than 6 postage stamps; Actual Studies done by real UI / usability types show that users like Big Images. A collage can be acceptable (if not encouraged) for truly gigantic conflicts where only showing a single image might provoke a nationalist reaction (World War II the canonical example here), which is unfortunate because WW2 is probably the most viewed war article, but it should be the exception, not the rule. That being said, I think that the old hesitance regarding galleries in some policies was misplaced, so I'm fine with the laudable goal of moving more images into articles - just create a gallery section to throw them into, and since the current gallery defaults are still unfortunately postage-stamp size, throw in a custom widths & heights parameters so that they're legibile. Galleries also display nicely on the mobile app, which is how a lot of readers see Wikipedia. On mobile, they can easily be scrolled through, or scrolled past if a reader isn't interested, unlike an infobox collage. SnowFire (talk) 22:53, 21 March 2024 (UTC)
- The question is specifically about "military conflicts", and I think this (i.e., "only showing a single image might provoke a nationalist reaction") is the key difficulty: you can't put up an image from "one side" and claim that inherently biased choice will "illustrate [the] point in an encyclopedic way". Multiple images could, however, be an "important illustrative aid to understanding" – by illustrating that there isn't just one, single important thing to know here. It is perhaps a literal case of the medium is the message: Giving multiple images shows that there are multiple viewpoints.
- That said, it's possible that these collages would be better placed outside of infoboxes, so that they can be larger. WhatamIdoing (talk) 01:53, 26 March 2024 (UTC)
AI generated images
Does Wikipedia have any restrictions on images generated using AI, such as DALL-E? ---- CharlesTGillingham (talk) 21:54, 25 March 2024 (UTC)
- Not really, beyond the restrictions on all images. But see Commons:Commons:AI-generated media for some useful guidance. There are probably some circumstances in which AI-generated images are useful, but I think it would be a bad idea to try to use a photorealistic AI image without making clear its artificial nature, and my experience is that AI image generators can be ok for clip art like images but are bad at technical illustration. —David Eppstein (talk) 01:06, 26 March 2024 (UTC)
- WP:AICLEAN may also be of interest. Nikkimaria (talk) 01:09, 26 March 2024 (UTC)
How do I add a copyright tag?
It's for File:Pinxton Castle Lidar.png found at [1] where it says Contains public sector information licensed under the Open Government Licence v3.0 which wasn't one of the choices given when I uploaded it but is one we can use. Thanks. Doug Weller talk 14:02, 29 March 2024 (UTC)
- Add {{OGL-3.0}} to the image description page. Nikkimaria (talk) 14:06, 29 March 2024 (UTC)
- Use Template:OGL-3.0 and provide the attribuiton details in the template. -- Whpq (talk) 14:06, 29 March 2024 (UTC)